Mark: 0:00

Okay welcome to rpg blokes you've listened to all our podcasts so far you know you get this point and you're thinking you know love it everything's good i believe what you're telling me but i still feel i'm a bit too old for this so we're just going to try and prove you wrong introducing the rpg blokes steven was the youngest of us when he began rolling the dice in fact he began playing dnd at the age of nine months and he's been sitting in the high chair ever since indeed, John, by far the oldest amongst us.

Stephen: 0:31

By far.

Mark: 0:32

It was a great shock recently to find out that he had always been an actual demon worshipper. Although the fact he is now 135 years old should have been a giveaway.

Jon: 0:42

I look forward to confirming that rumour.

Stephen: 0:45

You're slightly older.

Mark: 0:47

Barry, no spring chicken himself, which is just as well. Otherwise John would sacrifice him. this game is being marketed to younger players than us agreed i mean it's it seems like the target audience right now appears to be millennials a lot of people that you see online talking about dungeons and dragons the podcasters unlike us are of a certain type of demographic and that never used to be the case well you'd have trouble finding anybody talking about dnd when we were young but it may be slightly off-putting perhaps if you're looking at the hobby and trying to learn more about it that's part of why we're here but the older people that are promoting these things they're not trying to bring in new players so much they're definitely a bit more old school in their approach to the game as well it's.

Stephen: 1:46

Got a few older ones that promote it in a different way yeah they certainly would get i think if it's geared at adults then i guess it's better going for any adult.

Mark: 1:54

Um barry somebody's come into the the hobby at an older age what brought you into it what got you there what was the what was your in so to speak it wasn't through being advertised to in this manner was it no.

Barry: 2:05

It wasn't being advertised to in any way although it's interesting that now i'm into it it seems to be advertised to me much more.

Mark: 2:12

Yeah because obviously.

Barry: 2:13

I have told my all of my social media accounts that this is something i'm interested in so actually i see quite a lot of short form content about role-playing games and I have to say that I don't feel like I'm excluded from that content I see plenty of people that look and sound like me talking about the game but I also see plenty of people who are you know significantly younger than me and belong to different groups and communities than me also talking about it so one of the things that appeals to me about it is actually the diversity amongst the players you know we've got players from children up to people who are probably if not in their 60s certainly approaching it.

Mark: 2:52

I

Barry: 2:52

Did look at john.

Jon: 2:53

Treating it with ignoring it he's.

Mark: 2:56

Tired of it old and tired of it but and you're there now so what would be your advice to anybody that that sees all these fresh young faces and looks at themselves in the mirror and thinks what am i going to fit in with this is going to work this.

Barry: 3:10

Is the problem isn't it is that when you talk about advertising the majority of advertising is uses fresh young and beautiful people to sell their products i don't think that's about excluding us. I think that's about just how advertising works in general. I wasn't conscious of my age coming in. There wasn't a bit of me that thought, you know, this is a young person's hobby or this is a hobby for older people. I just think, you know, it's a really engaging hobby. And, you know, I talk a lot about I've made some really, really good friends from playing D&D. And, you know, some of those friends are decades younger than me. And, you know, These are genuine friendships. We socialise outside of playing Dungeons & Dragons, and that's been something that's been really good for me. Hanging out on a friendship level with people who are significantly younger than you is a joyous thing. I get a lot out of that, and I have the game to thank for that.

Mark: 4:03

You're right. Age doesn't really play a part. I was surprised when we started off our own role-playing community. It was a genuine surprise at the time. I thought, you know, we'll stick as old timers together and we'll try and attract new younger people into the hobby. But it just didn't turn out like that. And like you say, where there's a mix of ages at a table, the age just doesn't seem to be relevant. We're socializing quite clearly with people that we wouldn't normally be socializing with. We do find that people that do turn up at an older age, they have already had some experience with the hobby. And I guess that's the difficulty for anybody to listen to this, that they don't believe that they would be able to integrate correctly unless they have that experience, if they are older. And grabbing people like yourselves is the intention of this podcast and is something that we're very proud about being able to do in our own community. We really believe that there is something here for you within this hobby that you will immediately feel at home with. It's not going to take long. But still, I think, you know, entering a hobby like this at an older age without ever having play in it is harder to do than if you were a child.

Jon: 5:11

What would be a good filter if you'd started, say, online gaming where you've got, even if it's something like the Warcraft variants, where you've got a chat thing going on while you're playing? That would ease the way.

Mark: 5:28

I think that's a good way to get into, to initially try something online.

Jon: 5:31

Yeah.

Mark: 5:31

If you feel hesitant. And that can give you the experience then to know about the hobby, to learn the ropes a little bit more.

Stephen: 5:38

It depends why you would want to start role-playing. I think, let me take you back from when I started, I was into like the fantasy genre. I mean, if you're, as an older person, you've got into fantasy watching Game of Thrones or something on Netflix or something, you've got into fantasy. You're thinking, well, okay, now I fancy a game that kind of reflects this. there's.

Mark: 5:55

Likely to be a connection isn't there.

Stephen: 5:56

Anybody that's looking at this hobby yeah there has to be an end to it i don't think anyone wakes up and says i'd like to roll some dice pretending i'm somebody else i'm not sure if that's really the initial so.

Mark: 6:06

There's an itch.

Stephen: 6:06

I think there is an in i think there's an interest in to firing imagination about things you're interested in and you can replicate that in a game i think you have to be interested in it before then you look into something that can fulfill that.

Mark: 6:18

So likely the likelihood is anybody that's listening to this is already quite versed in fantasy fiction potentially.

Stephen: 6:24

Exactly books a great way of getting in yeah i mean i've read a lot of books when i was younger and uh it got me certainly into the hobby and i thought wow yeah i can actually do this so you can bring.

Mark: 6:33

That experience into the community and you won't feel a newbie.

Stephen: 6:37

Could be a non-role player as such but you know about the uh the worlds the genres and you could fit in very well still yeah yeah.

Mark: 6:43

Lean on those things and and also with with the internet you can watch people play online now and you can.

Stephen: 6:49

Get lots of actual plays going on on the internet.

Mark: 6:51

Yeah.

Stephen: 6:52

See how the actual game kind of works mechanically and see if it's the type of game you like.

Mark: 6:55

Those online games, they are different in the dynamic and how they work.

Stephen: 7:00

Yeah.

Mark: 7:01

But yeah, certainly look at them. You can pick up the mechanics of the game. If you know which game you're going to be coming into the room to play in the first place, you can do a little bit of homework with it. Age-wise, though, the one thing to say, I think if you're nervous about age is to ask quite quickly what age your people are in this community. of playing this game.

Stephen: 7:22

I think we do separate when we play children to adults. I guess there is the line there. If you're emotionally mature enough to play with adults, then that's great. But generally, we do...

Mark: 7:32

I tend to label tables, yeah, either for teens and they're for 18 plus or 21 plus normally attracts the older players, an indication. I would never advertise a table to be 50 plus or 40, 45 plus, just wouldn't see the need to do that.

Stephen: 7:47

No.

Barry: 7:48

A couple of things I'd say, like with age, when you talked about newbies, I think there is an element of young people picking things up quicker, like in terms of rules and stuff like that. I do think when you're younger, you're able to pick up skills and learning quicker. So if you are coming into the game brand new and a bit older, just bear in mind, don't beat yourself up about it. If you're not getting it as quickly as you thought you would, it will come, I can speak from personal experience, that it all being a mystery to some of it making sense, to most of it making sense, to, oh, I'm correcting the Dungeon Master. You know, that's a really fun journey.

Stephen: 8:27

It's a dangerous thing to do, that is, Barry.

Barry: 8:28

When you reach a point where you're saying to the Dungeon Master, I don't think you're applying that rule correctly, and then you reach for the book and it turns out you're right. Oh, very much enjoy that.

Stephen: 8:38

Rule of all liars.

Jon: 8:40

They're called the darkest of magic.

Mark: 8:42

Then your character dies two sessions later and you've got that little nagging doubt in your mind.

Stephen: 8:47

Revenge is best served cold as a dear.

Barry: 8:50

But one of the other things I'd say as well about coming into this hobby as someone well into middle age, I get a bit of stick from some of my peers because they don't get it. I get a bit of gentle teasing, you know, and it's fine. I can handle that. But just be prepared for that as well. People don't get it. They have misconceptions about what it is. They think that you're turning up in costume and that you're walking around caves with a sword. And you're like, no, no, no, I'm sitting around a table.

Mark: 9:13

I don't know if any of us have ever felt age-conscious playing this game or whether we've, you know, this feels a bit childish to me.

Jon: 9:21

Things are, I don't know. Do you remember that ad from the little small talk or the little in-jokes that you'll get from the films we had growing up. And you'll get the blank look from someone who's several decades younger. But the game itself is a brilliant filter for that because the setting is universal for everyone at the table. You can still use different things you've learned from other life experiences or other games and bring those in.

Mark: 9:53

There's no feeling that I'm 53, so I have to play a 53-year-old.

Jon: 9:58

You can't be old age, treachery and experience.

Stephen: 10:03

53's a very young elf.

Jon: 10:04

So the weird thing is you can often be playing characters that are a lot younger than yourself.

Barry: 10:11

One of the things that really took me by surprise that I wasn't prepared for is just how much comedy gold there is in an RPG. And yes, it can explore dark themes, etc, etc. But, you know, my experiences are, God, it's fucking hilarious. you know it really is and it can be hilarious from a role play point of view it can be hilarious from a calamity and failure point of view it's just there is so much comedy that it just that really took me by surprise.

Mark: 10:41

And it's the nature of the game that these these moments everybody appreciates them you don't have to be young you don't have to be old it's just something about the nature of the world you're playing in that transcends the age of the player at the table everyone's just sharing the same jokes, and getting the same cultural references within game jokes. The more you play, the more you get to know the alter ego of the person that's being played, the character. Yeah. and the age and differences between the ages of the people that the table dematerialises, I find.

Jon: 11:12

Yeah, I don't think there's a night that goes past where every table at the club hasn't erupted into gales of laughter at some point.

Barry: 11:38

Absolutely.

Jon: 11:39

Even though they could be in the middle of, like, their characters getting ripped apart. But they can win, or just horrendous dice rolls, time after time, and people just...

Barry: 11:50

Mark.

Jon: 11:51

Yeah, everyone, it happens. It's just incredible.

Mark: 11:53

I just don't know what to do about it. I'm going to go get something else. There is a spiritualist out there somewhere that can help me with my dice rolling. Please get in touch. So just to talk about games that adults, we've recently played a game called Tales of the Loop where you create a young person in the 80s, 12 years old, and part of the character generation really does connect you back in to that time. It's not just geared at people of our age, but particularly very well for us.

Stephen: 12:18

It was geared towards our age.

Mark: 12:19

Wasn't it? Yeah, that's a nostalgia.

Stephen: 12:20

80s kids, really.

Jon: 12:21

Best character generation session I've ever had. It was fantastic.

Mark: 12:24

Choosing our bikes, choosing everything else. and just having such a great time and a bit of fun with that, playing kids again. So, you know, you can get that release as well as an adult playing the game. But I just want to focus a bit more on the childishness of the game and how puerile it may in some ways come across if you were to look at it.

Stephen: 12:42

Are we talking about that?

Jon: 12:43

No, I'm talking about the way that it's advertised.

Mark: 12:45

If you're looking at the game, looking for a hobby to play now and you've had this idea that you like the genre and you've always wanted to play it and you do a bit of research and you're kind of confronted with a certain perspective on the game. I wouldn't like people to be put off by that feeling that they're too old and that potentially the game is a bit more childish. In reality, it's not.

Barry: 13:07

Right, so first of all, I don't really need to get away from using the word childish as exclusively negative. There is some joy to be had from doing things that are childish. I don't think it's childish in the sense that it's super easy and it's geared towards, you know, children being able to play it, you know, but I do think it's joyously childish, in the sense that, you know, you're giving yourself over to your imagination, you're telling a story. I mean, I suppose as an older person, the escapism element of it, doing childish things for a few hours as a grown-up is good for you.

Mark: 13:43

And some of my favourite systems actually bring out the childishness in the game. They're comical in that respect.

Barry: 13:49

Absolutely. And some of the best role-playing experiences that I've had have been the most petty and child-like behaviours from characters. Stuff that you could not get away with in real life.

Stephen: 14:01

You say child-like, exactly. It's not for children, it's for adults to be child-like.

Barry: 14:05

It's not for children.

Stephen: 14:07

It's for adults to become potentially children.

Mark: 14:10

And hopefully this podcast we're putting across that we are actually mature. grown-up adults.

Jon: 14:15

You just sat back. How? We're not...

Barry: 14:18

How dare you?

Jon: 14:20

Old is a fact. Mature is...

Mark: 14:23

And the sense of humour does really go a long way at the role-playing table, but then there are people that play it straight-laced, and they are quite serious people, and they're sitting there, and they're looking at their character and planning the stages of its development, and they're taking it very seriously, background and everything else. They enjoy that, but they're not put off by other people having a bit of a laugh at the table, but these players accessed.

Barry: 14:44

I quite like it when they end up getting swept away in it as well. Like you say, no one is ever going to dig you out for there being some comedy at the table, but the guys that seem to not be engaging with that as much every now and then get swept away with it, and that's a beautiful thing. It really is.

Stephen: 14:59

Well, I had a revelation, as it were, thinking about the age groups that play this game. I was thinking, well, yeah, you're right. There's no one in their 70s, 80s playing, or 60s maybe even, and I think it's because of the generational gap there. So we grew up in the 80s, and that's where role-playing traditionally has had its heyday. People older than us are the ones that would have more of a problem to get into the hobby than us.

Mark: 15:18

There aren't so many people of their age playing the hobby because it didn't exist when they were young.

Stephen: 15:22

No, they had other things to do, like to get out and play with sticks and hoops and stuff.

Mark: 15:26

So if you're our age, that is mid-50s, then you're always going to have people of your age to play this hobby with. So as we get older, so will that generation of people that played in their youth and that's going to make it a lot easier for you at our age to join this hobby than it would be if you were older. And that is something that is a barrier for you to join if you're in your 70s or 80s even. but potentially something that you might like to overcome, having heard everything else we've had to say.

Barry: 15:56

Well, and I think what I said earlier on about hanging out with people decades younger than you being good for you, I think that applies if you're in your 70s and 80s as much as it does if you're in your 50s and 60s. Don't let that be a barrier to stopping you playing because you'll get something out of that.

Jon: 16:09

Again, to the older generations, you guys have seen more. You've probably read more. You've seen some of the better movies because the old black and white stuff was brilliant. there's and life experience you can bring that in personally i love reffing to newbies people have never actually gamed before i can adapt what's going on i could you can you can learn the rules as you go you don't get a big info dump as you walk in you can learn organically as you progress through in character and out.

Mark: 16:46

And we and one of the things actually we've spoken about a few times in the past john isn't it that bringing this hobby to old people's homes where the hobby could have a value to people like ourselves on a community basis not on a commercial level taking it into those environments would be hugely beneficial to that particular demographic you.

Barry: 17:05

Know i'm suddenly becoming aware of my age and doing something like this where you're using your mind you're keeping your gray matter sharp i think is going to help stave off the effects that aging can have on your mind. I'm not saying it's a bona fide therapy, but I think most people would agree, use it or lose it. You know, use your brain, go out and do stuff. You know, do stuff that challenges you a bit. Use your mind to keep it in shape so that, you know, when we are in our, you know, 80s and 90s, we've still got the acumen left to play this game.

Mark: 17:35

Yeah, it's social and it's complex. It works the mind. John, the environment, the room itself, do you find that off-putting sometimes or not?

Jon: 17:45

So normally that noise can be a bit much for me personally. but it's positive it's not people screaming in the background or anything like that it's people having a good time can get a bit loud but hell we're as bad we have as much of a laugh so you know equal opportunities offender you can feel energized it it's it's great it's a lovely sidestep from reality you don't feel tired you don't feel old by the end of it far from it you Well, only when I try to move afterwards, which goes back to that, are you too old? Physically, if you're too old to do a lot of other stuff, this can be the hobby.

Mark: 18:28

Yeah. So the other concern that you might have is difficulty finding like-minded people. But I just want to say, if you're in that room and you're playing that game, then you will never find more like-minded people than yourself. Technology barriers. Concerns about having to use unfamiliar tools, but it's a fairly primitive game in that respect.

Stephen: 18:45

Don't use them then. A lot of people do. I don't, as the case may be. A lot of people say, D&D Beyond, I don't do it.

Mark: 18:51

Digital tools, sense.

Stephen: 18:52

Have a piece of paper and a pencil. Just a warning for those who are a bit older, seeing a character sheet is a little bit harder, especially in dim light.

Mark: 18:58

And John, I suppose you represent the least technologically proficient of us here.

Jon: 19:03

Fair.

Mark: 19:03

And it's not a barrier at all for your interaction with the game.

Jon: 19:06

It kind of has been, but it's partly my poor beleaguered laptop can only do so much. So I was struggling with Foundry.

Mark: 19:14

But that's online play.

Jon: 19:17

But that's when it becomes a problem i do use dnd beyond it it is quick and easy uh shadow run had uh chummer as a way of putting characters together pretty quickly without all the books needful so they're there if you think you're going to benefit.

Mark: 19:34

From some kind of automation to your character play and and creation then that that's there for you which makes it easier i suppose if you're a bit older i'm worried about learning new things but also if you want to really go back down to basics and just grab a pen and paper.

Jon: 19:48

That's there is a sense of connection like steve said when you've got your uh your flimsy pack full of handouts you've had over the years and uh the the notes you've taken and it really gives you that it was intended, so yeah i get what you're saying about the connection i understand but for me it.

Barry: 20:07

Was the exact opposite if it had to be done on pen and paper that would probably put me off in fact when we've done one shots with indie games and it's been pen and paper.

Jon: 20:15

Um i've basically had someone else doing my sheet for me and i just did the role play bit i got i got a sheet butler to be fair i can't read most of my notes what they are are memory triggers because my handwriting's so awful i can't really do it half the time but the hobby then allows you to approach it in in two different ways.

Mark: 20:34

Then you can take advantage of the technology in the hobby or you can go the opposite direction and hide away from it it's a bit of works.

Jon: 20:41

Yeah a mix of both probably it's the best tends to balance it so we're going to come to the end of this podcast now and hopefully what we're giving.

Mark: 20:48

You really is that feeling that there's no way you're too old for this and you know bearing in mind everything we've said today and in previous podcasts why don't you just give it a go to finish it off i think we're going to do the big reveal which ain't a big reveal really all fucking old but we're going to.

Jon: 21:03

Talk about our ages again so we'll start with um we'll Give John a little bit longer to think about it. I'll have to take my socks off. Hang on.

Mark: 21:12

We'll start with Barry.

Barry: 21:15

I'm 52.

Mark: 21:18

Stephen?

Stephen: 21:19

49.

Mark: 21:21

And John?

Jon: 21:22

54 and a half.

Barry: 21:26

That's like a toddler. How old are you? Two and a half.

Jon: 21:32

You're 53.

Mark: 21:33

I'm 53, so I'm pretty glad that John's at the table. Otherwise, I'd be the oldest. But yeah, I always feel young around John.

Stephen: 21:39

Everybody feels young around John.

Mark: 21:41

Yeah. Thanks for that, John. That's really kind.

Jon: 21:43

When I was in my 30s, if I told someone I was in my 40s or even 50s, nobody ever said, you look good for your age. That's how old I look.

Mark: 21:52

Every D&D club needs a John. Every D&D club probably does have a John. And therefore, that's the reason you should go. You'll never feel too old.

Jon: 22:00

The dusty skeleton mouldering in the corner.

Barry: 22:04

John could easily pass for 40 if he shaved that beard off.

Stephen: 22:08

The fact hunt makeover. That would be an interesting session.

Jon: 22:12

I'm permanently in character now. It's been decided.

Mark: 22:16

Just turn his head upside down on the photos.

Jon: 22:18

Okay.

Mark: 22:19

Right, so we've finished this now.

Jon: 22:23

Insult?

Stephen: 22:23

We've finished that?

Mark: 22:24

Yeah, before it degenerates into something that we won't.

Jon: 22:27

Fisticuffs.

Mark: 22:27

We're never made into season two if we carry on like this, guys.

Jon: 22:30

I will.

Mark: 22:31

Right, I've got another. How do you want to do this? I won't. Oh.

Stephen: 22:35

I don't want that one.

Mark: 22:35

You do yours.

Stephen: 22:36

I'll add to that one.

Mark: 22:36

It's your segment. You do it.

Jon: 22:37

Chaotic good. Don't do what they say here, man. No, we have the one. Hang on.

Stephen: 22:42

Let me read it again.

Jon: 22:42

You spent at least 10 seconds looking it up.

Stephen: 22:44

You deserve it remember if your DM is smiling it's already too late yeah my upnotes let's slice and dice.