Mark: 0:00

Welcome back to RPG Blokes. So last time we heard all about Little Mark's plans for the Golden Demon Awards in Milwaukee. The ideas, the ambition and what he was hoping to pull off. Now today we're going to check in before he heads out to see where things actually stand. So flights are booked, the clock is ticking and the nerves are starting to kick in maybe. So pull up a chair while we get the low down on the sweat, the stress and the search for the Slayer Sword. hi mark how you doing.

Little Mark: 0:44

Going blind i've stared at these models now for like so the the main piece i've stared at it for over 300 hours so you get you get tunnel vision yeah.

Mark: 0:56

When it's over then.

Little Mark: 0:58

Hopefully so but the thing this is the problem with this right one of the tips i'd give budding painters is you've got to learn when to stop right because you just keep trying to change things and all it takes is one little cough when you're painting something one little moment where you, green on red or something like that and the whole area is ruined so at some point you've got to stop and so that's what i've chosen to do now that's me done.

Mark: 1:21

Well you've stopped because you have to i mean you're about to board a plane.

Little Mark: 1:24

With it did you.

Mark: 1:26

Really make that decision or.

Little Mark: 1:27

Did you just time run out time run out in front of me i couldn't paint on the actual plane no matter how good british airways say they are so yeah it's yeah it's now or nothing yeah.

Mark: 1:36

So today we've got some questions about the minis that you've painted um some of your decision making with them, we'll talk about the competition itself logistics with the travel and on your mindset and and all of these things uh and we'll be putting pictures up photos up of the final miniatures as you're.

Little Mark: 1:55

Going to.

Mark: 1:55

Be taking them and also the work in progress photos they'll all be up on discord, um so everyone can have a look at those and see so yeah talking about the painting itself so you you said well, you thought you might do about 300 hours on one was that or on the more how long no no.

Little Mark: 2:10

No so on one so the main entry the knight's panther, um which obviously like you said we'll show photos to trying to win the golden demon painting competition is is is like trying to swim from here to america through glue it is it is uphill all the way, and these people that enter this competition all they do for their career they like have patreon websites these paint models so when you have a normal life kids and stuff like you just can't go that way, so i've gone down the nostalgia route. That's the way I've gone. I've gone, we all, every time, every person I show this nice pamphlet to, instantly remembers the john blanche artwork so the old idea that it's captured that image has been has been a massive tick that's done even one of our friends called um, mr ballard you know him um even he straight away instantly the moment he saw it went that's the knight's panther from the white dwarf cover.

Mark: 3:00

Yeah i think he had it or i mean we're in buying that back in the.

Little Mark: 3:03

90s yeah yeah so so that so it automatically ticks that so when anyone looks at it they're gonna go oh that's the Knights Panther yeah so I'm going down the nostalgia route yeah.

Mark: 3:12

Okay then what you think that'll give you an effective hour spent bonus like it's almost you've done your 10,000.

Little Mark: 3:19

Hours because everybody's just gonna fall in love with it plus one to roll yeah so the people took one golden demon in the past there's two, The general consensus is there's two types of winner. There's the winner that is painting is like Venus de Milo's arms or the Sistine Chapel ceiling. It's beyond criticism. It's just everything's smooth. There's no lines. You know, the colours all blend together and stuff like that. So like the guy that won it two years ago painted a little skink model, which is only like 33 mils high, but it was flawless. It was unbelievably good. and then the other type of winner is the artistic type so people that go in with like a kind of, um like i said like nostalgia or like a theme and the painting i'm not saying it's not good because clearly it is but it's just not at the same level and that's the angle i'm going yeah okay but.

Mark: 4:13

You're quite capable of winning it through that angle i mean that to the layman that would actually be the better painted figure anyway wouldn't it for me i wouldn't be looking, quite at the detail you're expressing that required by these true artists but i would be looking more to be to look at it and have that nostalgic field as a punter but as a judge you think they'll also find that to be appealing enough to give you.

Little Mark: 4:36

Yeah so a guy that won a trophy a couple years ago was a bunch of space marines from the 40k game running out of like a kind of, drawbridge that laid down like they're kind of running out of their base and you could see the you could see the lines on it you could see where they it slapped some dirt on it you could see where they'd use something called slime and grime which you put on a model then you wipe off and it makes it look all grim and dark there was loads of flaws to it but the but the, the imagery of it was really quite good you know of these marines running out of this base to go to attack whatever they're attacking and that one and that and that one uh i think it was a one of silver so they're the ways you you've got to pick um, yeah okay that's what i think it'd.

Mark: 5:15

Be good actually to just to recap on what it is you're trying to achieve so the golden demon because i i know that you've won what these pins you get the pins that's for getting into the last what the the last five.

Little Mark: 5:28

Oh no it's way more complicated than that okay just recap so.

Mark: 5:32

It all ends up with the slayer sword right.

Little Mark: 5:33

That's the pinnacle.

Mark: 5:34

Of all the slayer sword is the is the golden demon the slayer sword is that the same thing.

Little Mark: 5:41

No so okay so what happens is is there's thousands of applicants but let's just argue that it's a hundred for ease of maths right let's just say there's a hundred entrants what happens is is there's my.

Mark: 5:50

Maths go down to a thousand if you wanted to go.

Little Mark: 5:52

There okay so a thousand people have entered remember a thousand people per category and there's nine categories so a thousand people okay we're, getting yeah nine thousand i'm with you so what you do is is the first cut is a little green sticker that appears on your name and that cuts off half the chaff so you go from, a thousand to five hundred straight away no one's won any pin or anything just someone's gone oh i like that.

Mark: 6:16

Is that before you turn up or is that a thousand people with their figures at the event.

Little Mark: 6:20

Yeah yeah so you're there and you could be you could be out within 10 minutes yeah as well it sounds right so they put the green dot on there and you go from a thousand to five hundred and that happens four times, yeah so you go from a thousand to five hundred five hundred to two fifty two fifty to one hundred and twenty five twenty one hundred and twenty five to seventy five yeah so you before you even get one of these pins you've gone from a thousand to seventy five, yeah and that means that four different people have gone oh i like that, yeah and they've put a little dot on your little stick i'll try and send you a photo of it when i'm there you have like a little plaque about this big it has your name on it and you should have this little box and these put stickers in it right and it's like it's it's amazing how excited you are over a.

Mark: 7:03

But that all happens in one round, is it? They filter down through.

Little Mark: 7:05

Yeah, yeah.

Mark: 7:06

And you need, you need, do you look at your figure? You see, I've got four, four stickers here.

Little Mark: 7:10

You've got to the next phase. Yeah.

Mark: 7:12

Okay.

Little Mark: 7:12

In that phase, there's another three cuts, right? So you get your recommended, which is a pin. Then you get your, um.

Mark: 7:21

That's half a game. So, so say that's, that's, that's for a freeze. That's say you're at 80 now. So that halves it down to 40. And then you pin when there's 40 left.

Little Mark: 7:32

Yep. So there's 40 left. then you get what's called a commended so that goes down to 20 yeah okay and then those 20 get best of show which is five five or eight it moves around and they're the ones that could win a trophy, yeah yeah there is there is technically five six seven eight eight levels you've got to go through before you get to this final phase yeah.

Mark: 7:56

So the final phase is not the pin phase that that that That.

Little Mark: 7:59

Was back up.

Mark: 8:01

This is the trend. So everybody in the last eight, what are they guaranteed to get?

Little Mark: 8:05

So they get like a little plaque. It's nothing exciting. It's just like a little piece of black card with a gold, like kind of finalist card on it, right? And then what you do is, is the eight of you go on to state, on the stage, and then they go, and here we do the, so prime example is Old World, which is the main entrant I've done. They go, what I'm Old World. These are the entrants. You get your names on the screen. And then they pick the three that are going to win. and it's bronze, silver, or gold.

Mark: 8:30

Right.

Little Mark: 8:31

Yeah. Now, if you're lucky enough to win the gold in each of these categories, those nine people go into another section, and one of those people is going to win the sword.

Mark: 8:41

So is one Slayer Sword given out of the event?

Little Mark: 8:43

Yeah, one.

Mark: 8:45

The gold is a pretty decent result here, because the Slayer Sword, well, that could go to any category, and that's way beyond your expectations here, is it? Yeah, yeah, I'm not stupid yet.

Little Mark: 8:56

So to get the Slayer Sword, first of all, you need to go through those eight selection processes, then you need to win gold and then you need to win the best of the nine gold yeah you know the odds are just yeah so what's.

Mark: 9:11

Um so what is your expectation what what do you think you'd like to achieve.

Little Mark: 9:15

Here i would like to get to commended i'd like to get to the phase above where i've been so i've got recommended i've got past the first eight phases that you know sorry the five where you get your stickers i've got past that, i've got past the next phase where you get a pin i've got past that and then i fall short then i don't get any further so what i'd like to do is get to the commended which is their plaque yeah okay yeah, if i'm really lucky if i'm really really lucky i might get on stage yeah.

Mark: 10:00

So then you get what bronze silver.

Little Mark: 10:02

Gold yeah one in eight one in eight chance of getting a getting a trophy yeah yeah.

Mark: 10:06

Okay do you know yet who else is entering do you know what you're up against is there any do you've you've submitted or you turn up on the day and submit and it could be completely.

Little Mark: 10:15

Uh so you've got to do an online form which i'm going to do over the next couple of dates which lets you you don't send photos it just says mark edwards one inch before old world mark edwards one entry for whatever, So I enter that. This is one of the reasons why I'm going to America. My love of painting is also one of the things that winds me up. A golden Slayer Sword winner can enter the competition every year. And I know in the UK alone, there's eight Slayer Sword winners. That means they enter it every year, a chance of re-winning it. And these guys all talk to each other. So the guy that's entering, so prime example, I'm entering the old world. One of them will enter the old world. because they know that they're competing against their other Slayer Sword winners. Yeah. And then they're already in a 50-50 chance of losing.

Mark: 11:01

Yeah.

Little Mark: 11:01

So each person enters one category. Yeah. Does that make sense? So already in the UK, there are eight models in that cabinet for eight different categories that have already won the Slayer Sword. And the guy that's won it last year has won it three times in a row. Yeah. So I'm not saying he's not good, but it just lowers your chance of getting anywhere.

Mark: 11:22

But isn't the same thing happening in different territories? is but although the the competition is newer in america isn't it you said that hasn't been running for.

Little Mark: 11:28

So yeah so so well bizarrely not so these people that always win in europe just stay in europe so the best chance i've ever got of getting acknowledged is to go to a different country but they've.

Mark: 11:38

Got their own slayer sword winners in america that are still distributing their.

Little Mark: 11:43

But they've always been different yeah they've always been different yeah okay so it's.

Mark: 11:48

A bit healthier competition.

Little Mark: 11:49

Yeah i think so i think so i think what what if i if i could get in control of the thing I would say that once you won the Slayer Sword you shouldn't be allowed to enter with the commoners you should have another painting competition, for the premiership yeah, which would give me the slightest glimpse of chance of winning you know it's hard as it is let alone the level I'm going against, uh are.

Mark: 12:12

There any ways to influence the judge that beyond what you're saying the nostalgia angle and and and and being obvious where you're coming from is there any way on the day that you can influence.

Little Mark: 12:22

The no you don't have any access to them so the cabinets face outwards and the judges are inside like a kind of holding pen they're inside behind these cabinets so you have no control over that, good old days back in the 90s and stuff you used to be able to talk to the judges if you got to the final phase but didn't win a medal you could have a conversation with them and they'd go, right, I see what you did here. Good idea. Let's work on that. But they don't do that anymore. They don't do that because there's too many. So they just say, well done, and that's the end of it.

Mark: 12:49

Right. Okay. Yeah, you don't get to – they don't give you feedback at all. But I guess you could get feedback off your peers or you could work out what you've found.

Little Mark: 12:57

Yeah. The other thing that a lot of high-level entrants do is if they don't win in Europe, they take the same model without changing it to America. and it has been shown that they where they enter one they win in the other is quite bizarre yeah so it's all down to the judge so a guy that entered a 40k squad lost, the chance of winning any model in australia and in america, but one in europe with the same model yeah, so that's the other thing you've got to do because the only thing that knocks the model out of the competition is winning once you've won with that entrant you can't play to anywhere else anywhere else yeah you can keep you can keep putting it in i could put this model in for the next 10 years yeah.

Mark: 13:40

Okay well maybe you will try in.

Little Mark: 13:41

The uk yeah maybe well it'd be it'd be in essen in germany but yeah there may be, I don't know. I'm not like that. I like the idea, me personally, I like the idea of, okay, well, you did well with that. Thank you very much. And you progress. You move on to the next thing. Yeah. You move on to the next gag, the next idea, the next process.

Mark: 13:57

You mentioned in the previous podcast that your eyesight is on the decline like it is. And that could be a limiting factor with your research. We're all getting older.

Little Mark: 14:06

You know, I have to wear magnifying glasses now and stuff like that. I haven't got many years in me in regards to having the patience or the the time to do this this takes these take hundreds of hours you know well.

Mark: 14:20

That's positive anyway so you're going to get the you're going to come back with the golden demon.

Little Mark: 14:24

With yeah yeah that's the way it's going to be yeah.

Mark: 14:27

But um you mentioned you were going to enter a number of categories did you paint um all of the figures that you intended to do so you had um so you're even going to do a lord of the rings figure weren't you did you get that far.

Little Mark: 14:37

Yeah i've done it yeah yeah so i'll take photos did you choose so there is a i'd have to try and bring him up on um there there's there is, a new cartoon that they did for lord of the rings which was about the roheran yes that's right yeah yeah yeah and and the previous like the history behind it uh, and what it was the the bloke that's in it gets frozen in ice helm hand, goes outside helms deep and fights off a bunch of villains yeah he doesn't use weapons he uses his fists and right at the very end right at the very end of the cartoon he's there outside frozen in ice, so what i thought i'd do i know you can't see on the camera now what i thought i'd do is i paint him and then cover him in ice yeah it's like how do you do that so i've covered him like in kind of resin and then there's this thing you can get that makes ice crystals yeah, which I've found, by the way, tastes absolutely gopping. And what it does is, it makes ice crystals, and I've put them on him, so it looks like he's got ice growing off him.

Mark: 15:41

Yeah.

Little Mark: 15:42

This goes back down the same idea of the nostalgic piece, yeah, of something that I've never seen done. And the painting, unfortunately, the process has taken away from some of the level of paint. So it's called Green Stuff World Liquid Frost, right?

Mark: 15:58

Yeah, it tastes good, if you say.

Little Mark: 16:00

Yeah, it's horrible. And what you do is it creates crystals. So in the photo I'll send you, he's got crystals all over him, so it looks like he's frozen in ice. The only thing I'm worried about, though, is there's no plaque. And I'm worried that someone will look at it and go, well, what's that about? Yeah?

Mark: 16:18

You haven't been able to tell everybody what it is, so you've got to be really in the know about what that figure represents. Exactly. So you're rolling the dice there, and you're taking a risk.

Little Mark: 16:26

Yeah. So I'm thinking about, in the next few days, there's a place down the road that, sells trophies and i can get a plaque pot on it and i think i should because at the moment it just looks like a badly painted model covered in ice yeah okay but.

Mark: 16:40

Then once you know what it is it suddenly the.

Little Mark: 16:42

Magic yeah okay.

Mark: 16:44

Do that do that don't take any risks with it but.

Little Mark: 16:46

It's not your.

Mark: 16:47

Main your main paint so you've got the blood bowl uh.

Little Mark: 16:51

Diorama yeah so so that's my arty piece yeah the next entrance i've got is that in the game of blood bowl there is a famous team called the Rickland Reavers, and out of those there was two famous players called Griff and Zug and they were, And in one of the comic books that they were in, there was a famous maneuver, that Zugg made his way through the opposite team and Griff behind him scored and they won the Blood Bowl Cup, right? So I've done it. I've done that, right? So I've recreated that. We have a problem here, though, which I'll get to in a minute. And I've painted it in the old colors, in the old way that they were, to make it look all nostalgic. Now, everyone will know what this is. This is well iconic. This is. the only problem we've got is in the entrant to the blood bowl category, it first of all it says anything's allowed right it says any single model or team and later on in the rules it stays a team being a minimum of three models well this is two. Yeah okay so if i'm unlucky the judge might go no mate that you have to have three figures that goes in the open category and the open category is the one that's you know you could create a life-size, demon you know so, it i don't know but the one of the golden demon winners that won a couple of years ago had a werewolf being tackled by a couple of zombies now that did make three figures, but it's not the same team does that make sense yeah yeah there's three figures on there but they weren't from a single team they were from different teams yeah okay that's the catch the key phrase there is, team or warband consisting of more than three figures and this is two yeah so.

Mark: 18:30

If you were forced to put that in the open category that would come at the expense of the lord of the rings bigger then would it.

Little Mark: 18:35

No no because that goes in the lord of the rings category.

Mark: 18:37

Oh there is a category.

Little Mark: 18:38

For that yeah.

Mark: 18:39

What have you got going into the open category i.

Little Mark: 18:42

Have nothing i've gone i've gone for nostalgia like i said.

Mark: 18:45

Oh you got so it wouldn't be a serious matter would it you just shift it across to a different category or do you think it's it's not it's got more chance of winning the blood bowl is your real bread and butter in it that's where you've.

Little Mark: 18:54

Won all the.

Mark: 18:54

Awards you've done in the.

Little Mark: 18:55

Past yeah correct.

Mark: 18:57

The golden demons but that's yeah so you'd want that to be in the blood bowl.

Little Mark: 19:01

Category yeah right so that's that the next one i got is games workshop released something called horus heresy which is the history the old history and in there there is an iconic character that gets slaughtered, that's 40k is it yeah well yeah 40k old 40k yeah, uh yeah again i send photos of this uh and what i've tried some new ideas with this guy so i've tried something called osl so um occasional lighting sources i mean i know basically the sword is powered so it's shiny and it's shining onto his face, yeah so i've i've painted, it's hard to explain but i've kind of made all that area blue.

Mark: 19:38

Okay well we'll be posting up photos of these so good good to.

Little Mark: 19:43

Do a close-up.

Mark: 19:43

Of the face so we can.

Little Mark: 19:45

See what you're talking about Bizarrely, this is the one I like the most But people have looked at it and said they don't like it, paradoxically when i entered a model like this in one of the competitions i got the furthest i ever got so take a bit really.

Mark: 19:59

So this could be a wild card this one could do well.

Little Mark: 20:02

Yeah it could do it could do yeah again it's all about it's all about nostalgia isn't it it's all about people because in when you're like me and you do a lot of games workshop stuff you you you tend to remember imagery and artwork and stuff and he's what he's one of the artwork pieces not john blanch one though the blood bowl one was this was a this this had old john blanch on it so hopefully it'll work, yeah and then last but not least the big one the big yes.

Mark: 20:26

That's the one i think we'll talk about the most because that is the the the real the real deal isn't it this is the one you put the most hours in the one you got the most hope for this is the reason you're traveling for right yeah.

Little Mark: 20:35

This correct the whole reason i'm traveling to america is with this model yeah.

Mark: 20:40

Yeah okay so So this is the knight's panther rising up on the back of his horse, the horse rearing, on the edge of a cliff like the old White Wolf magazine, The Nightly's Cover that John Blanche painted, that become an iconic picture because it did shape a lot of the iconography and the look of these things, didn't it? I mean, it was so early in the evolution of the Warhammer. universe particularly was it was it painted for the role-playing game or was it painted for the battle game i can't.

Little Mark: 21:09

Remember i don't i honestly don't know it was long enough to be part of wymer fantasy roleplay.

Mark: 21:14

Yeah it was around.

Little Mark: 21:15

That time so it was around that time.

Mark: 21:17

It was used in one of the books when it as well was it used in the main rules i think there was a print of it.

Little Mark: 21:22

Within.

Mark: 21:22

Within the rule booker.

Little Mark: 21:23

Yeah yeah yeah and there was a there was a very famous staff member that were for games virtual called mike mcveigh, and mike mcveigh recreated it and this is back in the days where you you didn't chop models up and stuff like and it was i remember reading it as a kid in white door thinking how the bloody hell has he done that you know.

Mark: 21:39

So was it made in lead back in the day.

Little Mark: 21:41

Yeah yeah because he only chopped it up and moved it about and stuff like to make it look like the artwork yeah, yeah i mean like i said i'm going i'm looking at it now and i'm worried about the towel on the tiger do you know i mean you keep on you keep on stereotypes you go you go you go mental.

Mark: 21:58

So that's a few questions on that then was there a particular part of it that you had to keep on redoing or did it all fall into place quite quite.

Little Mark: 22:05

Easily so so the tiger the tiger fur which typically right is you can barely see because the back the model is static so you can't see the back of it i had to do that three times um so i painted it one of our colleagues one of our friends a guy called joe, i've been in communication with him for months and i did it first and i did like a like a really dark leopard color and it desaturated the model too much so the night to repaint it and i tried, a lighter leopard that didn't work so in the end i spent, i don't know a day and a half painting it like a tiger, So now it looks like a tiger skin.

Mark: 22:40

But that was the bit that you spent the longest on, really. Oh, yeah.

Little Mark: 22:43

And paradoxically, I spent the longest on it. And like I said, it's at the back of the figure.

Mark: 22:47

Yeah. But somebody will look at it. I guess the judges, if you get to the advanced stages, are going to be looking at that more than anything else. And they're looking for imperfections, like you were saying.

Little Mark: 22:56

So there you go. So there's the catch. So one of the Games Workshop staff members that, when I was working there, did a lot of the judging at Golden Demon, is when you get to the final eight, as horrible as it sounds they're no longer looking because if you're in the final eight your model is spectacular anyway, what they're looking for at that point is the flaws yeah so like you know where you've accidentally gone over the line for a yellow into blue or something like that or an eye is not level with the other eye or something like that the teeth aren't the same shaded on both sides and things like that and that's the level you get to and anything can failure like, i i i've had four different people look at this model and if there's a mold line on there that neither of us have seen out there you go yeah did.

Mark: 23:40

Anything did anything on the figure turn out better than you expected.

Little Mark: 23:44

Yeah yeah very much so so the the bit that i really i personally like um is the axe so he's got he's got his axe and he's got kind of swinging from his back and i use loads of different types of shade and the, the furthest part away from you is quite dark and the the bit closest to your eyes is lighter and it just it just worked really really well it was a really weird moment because i spent so long painting other bits and i did that in under an hour and and it just all worked the shading worked the colors worked the yeah.

Mark: 24:14

It really adds a lot to the figure then it's in one of the prominent positions so people will come.

Little Mark: 24:18

Along immediately yeah and the chipping i did on it worked and it all just kind of fell into place uh you have that with these things you you're you you can find that you're painting one little thing and it just won't work and then suddenly you you move on to the next part and it all that's.

Mark: 24:34

The bit you're the most proud of.

Little Mark: 24:35

Is there.

Mark: 24:36

Yeah so people are unlikely to miss that aren't they there's that's a good thing.

Little Mark: 24:41

About so when you're painting a model to your to viewers you want to think of a triangle right okay so like an upside down triangle and what you want to do is you want to have the the the viewer's eyes drawn in that triangular area, so when you're looking at the horse when you're looking at this model face on i put the most amount of effort in the horse's head, the axe and the rider's leg, yeah so you're drawn you're drawn in to that that that triangle so if we take that to another example so when you see the photos of the blood bowl figure, you'll see that the triangle on this one is the two faces and Bizarre Lee's boots yeah so you're drawn in your eyes are drawn into those three things and that's how you do it, so in this character like I said you're drawn into the three areas and hopefully that'll then, move your image along and it's like the other thing I like is I really like the way that the moon turned out on, the background art because in the picture in the John Blanc's picture the moon is tiny but it's such an iconic part, And in this figure, when you'll see the photos, when you're looking directly at it, what you'll find is that the moon is directly underneath the leading hoof. Yeah? So as you're holding it in your hand and looking at it, it looks like he's jumping over the crescent moon. Yeah?

Mark: 26:00

Yeah.

Little Mark: 26:01

To draw your eyes into the iconic artwork.

Mark: 26:04

Yeah. Okay. And what techniques did you try that were a bit of a gamble? Anything that you've thought this would be? is you know a bit risky.

Little Mark: 26:15

Yeah yeah yeah so so i i metallics are not my best i've always had a problem with metallics i just seem to just i don't i can't explain it i just it's a bit of a barrier.

Mark: 26:24

Have you thought about getting any metallic paints like silver and gold paints no i'm taking a piss that's that's that to me is all it would be what you got how many different metallic paints have you got, can you mix metallic paints like you do with other paints no no okay but you've got like you just showed me 12 different metallic.

Little Mark: 26:43

Paints i've had three four eight 12 16 20 28 28 different metallic paints but once.

Mark: 26:50

You've got to make your choice so you can't mix them up and.

Little Mark: 26:53

You mix.

Mark: 26:53

Them with normal paints for you to get.

Little Mark: 26:55

Oh it's way worse than that my friend so when you're metallics you have to change the water you're using change the brush you're using and change your wet palette that you're using because otherwise the metallic paint no matter how small will eek its way into the other colors the matte colors, so you have to end up being like some sort of it's like a weird kind of neither shall the two touch.

Mark: 27:15

And you have to use metallic paints you can't replicate metal by using normal acrylics.

Little Mark: 27:20

No you well you can do some metallic metal which is where you make like um the artwork back in the 18th century where they painted armor on they obviously clearly don't have metallic paints there and they use whites and grays and stuff um i can do it i I don't mind sending a photo, of another model I did that did non-metallic metal, but it's hard.

Mark: 27:42

It's even harder.

Little Mark: 27:43

Yeah, yeah. And when you're dealing with such small areas, you've got to be really succinct about it. But back to the point of me being a painter, I want to... I want to improve. I want to get better. So that's why I did it. And yes, it may end up getting me thrown out of the competition. But if I don't try to do these things, you get caught in your own little area. Yeah. So like prime example is I love painting blood bowl figures, but that's only one of the four. Yeah. So I forced myself out of my comfort zone and I have learned a hell of a lot, like how to do tiger fur and how to paint fur properly, how to get the metal of the axe working very, very well, how to get the eyes in the right position. how to use a scenic base to to draw you into the figure, um how on the other entry one of the the 40k one it's gone completely the opposite way i've got the tiniest amount of base yeah he's standing on the tiniest amount of concrete on a base to make it accentuate the model above it, so i've tried different techniques and tried different things and i and i want to improve so the way to improve is to is to do this is to is to get your wheelhouse.

Mark: 28:50

Okay so yeah it's a bit of a gamble because you were talking about doing blue tint to the the armor as well.

Little Mark: 28:55

Yeah i've done that yeah that turned out well yeah very much so so what i did with that is i got a um, what's called a contrast paint and you you use it ever what i've learned from that is you've got to use it, ever so slightly it because when it's drying it doesn't look that good yeah well not good it doesn't look that blue does that make sense and once it dries, it um it's a lot more in your face yeah.

Mark: 29:22

Okay and uh you mentioned the fleur-de-lis as well did you.

Little Mark: 29:25

Manage so i've done every every part of the model, doesn't have a blank area now this is risky because you could look at it and go it's too much going on here yeah yeah, on the other side of that you're leaving quite a large area just as blank cloth and remember the character is meant to be the lord of the knight's panther yeah he's meant he's the bloke so he would have, all the fleur-de-lis and all the all the regalia that came with being this level of of martial so i have to do it, and it like i said when when you saw you've seen it yourself uh and the other people it does work it's all about nostalgia it's all about whether the guy likes it.

Mark: 30:10

Yeah okay and how do these pieces particularly this one piece compared to your previous work particularly your previous competition work.

Little Mark: 30:18

How would you compare it it's bigger so yeah.

Mark: 30:21

You say it's a higher standard would you say this is the best you've.

Little Mark: 30:24

Submitted best i've ever painted any model ever yeah yeah it is right fantastic.

Mark: 30:28

That's that's what you want to be saying isn't it so that's that's the result you need.

Little Mark: 30:32

Yeah i've never i've never spent so the way i did it was that i i like cut the horse into quarters and then i spent, 20 hours on each quarter and then i spent 20 or 30 hours on the cloak and so on and so forth i've never i've never put this much because, What I tend to find is, as I'm painting models, I tend to get a bit excited, and I want it finished, and I tend to start speeding up. So with these models, what I had to do was paint an area and leave it for two days. Yeah? Let the excitement go, come back, paint for a couple of hours, and leave it for a couple of days. Which did mean it took me longer to do.

Mark: 31:13

I never have the patience to do that. Whenever I painted, I wouldn't even.

Little Mark: 31:16

You want it over and done with.

Mark: 31:17

Didn't you? Is that? Yeah, you want it.

Little Mark: 31:18

Over and done with.

Mark: 31:20

Didn't you? yeah i'll just get on with it i'm there to paint i'm not there to sort of wait for something to dry it's like watching paint dry is notoriously quite a boring thing to do, it is literally you've got to have those levels of patience having you to to reach these lists you know to be at that competition level uh, so you've leveled up a bit with this entry that's good news put the so let's talk about get in there i think now so you're you're all booked up ready to go so you've got, that getting it there your fear of i know you've spoken great fear about the transportation of the figures because you you spoke about um creating a sort of a container or something putting them in a perspex, box and taking them on his hand luggage is that still how you're going to go about it yeah.

Little Mark: 32:03

Yeah so so i've got like i said i don't we don't think they're going to see it but i've got like a a plastic see-through tofferware box okay to be doing is i'm going to be.

Mark: 32:12

Which is The size of an average walk-on suitcase.

Little Mark: 32:15

Isn't it? Well, way more specific than that, I've made sure that it is the exact height to fit in that stupid little area that they say you can only put hand luggage in, yeah?

Mark: 32:24

Yeah, okay.

Little Mark: 32:24

Like any of the rules, I've made it see-through so the TSA agent can look through the box and see what it is, yeah? And apparently, when you go there and you're talking to the people that you're putting the model through, you can tell them what it is and maybe they'll be gentle. But just to let you know, all it will take is one thumbprint on the back of that and I've lost.

Mark: 32:47

On the background art or on the figure itself.

Little Mark: 32:50

Because you can't glaze it and I can't varnish it.

Mark: 32:52

But the background art, you said, is not judged within the competition.

Little Mark: 32:57

It will be judged with a big bloody thumbprint on it.

Mark: 32:59

It will. It will just stand against you. There's no way you can overcome it.

Little Mark: 33:01

No way you can win. Could you imagine it in photos on White Dwarf and stuff like that? So all it takes is someone to rub their thumb on it, knock it over and stuff like that, and I'm out.

Mark: 33:10

You've got no backup plan if something like that happens. There's no way to recover. No, you can't. You can't take trains with you or do something while you're there.

Little Mark: 33:17

No because the colors are unique to the airbrush i used the the the technique on the day i might get the shading wrong i might get the angle wrong you know and then the moment you try to fix it you'll see that you've tried to fix it, so basically i need to hold it in front of the bloke and say look if you want me to get it out i'll get it out you can you can hold it you know you can just hold it at the base you know and give them free access to it but i just gotta hope they don't dick with it, right then when it's on the plane it's gotta be between my legs and i've got to hope there's no stupid turbulence between here and there. Then when I got off at the other end, I've got to get it in a car and drive to Chicago. Then I've got to get from Chicago to Milwaukee and then it goes in the cabinet.

Mark: 33:59

And then you breathe a sigh of relief.

Little Mark: 34:01

Yeah. And then I, and then I've, and then my luck, that's when I drop it.

Mark: 34:06

That, that sounds a lot like a lot.

Little Mark: 34:08

I'm worried about, I'm worried about things. Like I've got blue tack. I went, I didn't buy blue tack. I bought the stuff called from gorilla glue. Yeah. Which is gorilla tack, which is stronger. Right. I've never heard of that.

Mark: 34:19

Okay.

Little Mark: 34:20

But what I'm worried about is they go, all that could be plastic explosives, mate.

Mark: 34:23

That's true.

Little Mark: 34:24

So now I've got to take the pack with me to prove what it is. Yeah. I'm trying to second-guess everything they're going to do. Because if he says, well, you can take them through, but you can't stick them to the base, well, then what do I do? Do I hold them in my hands?

Mark: 34:37

You do. Surely you do.

Little Mark: 34:39

Yeah. So then the next thing...

Mark: 34:41

Eight hours, however long the flight is.

Little Mark: 34:43

It's like that. Yeah. So the next idea I got, because I can't have them wobble, because if the model wobbles and the passenger jerks too much, it could fall into the other model. So I might have to take some gaffer tape with me to tape them down just in case that doesn't work. you know i've got i'm trying to but i've seen videos of people taking these models to competitions on planes with this stuff so i'm hoping they they know what they're all about wow okay i don't.

Mark: 35:12

A lot of stress there yeah.

Little Mark: 35:14

Just but like i said all it'll take is one tsa agent stick his like massive hand into there to grab it yeah and the whole thing off all two pieces and that'll be the end.

Mark: 35:24

Yeah terrible i think.

Little Mark: 35:26

Well let's.

Mark: 35:27

Assume that you're going to get there and they're in that in that cabinet and then how long does the competition take is it a single day.

Little Mark: 35:34

I don't know so you've got until you've got from wednesday to friday to enter your models the first round of um these rounds we talked about happens on saturday, and then on sunday on uh during the day on saturday sunday saturday night they do their final judging and then when you come in on Sunday morning, you find out if you're in or not. And it will be one of the eight models on the top shelf. Yeah. And then you stick around till four o'clock that afternoon to find out if you want anything. my models go in the cabinet on thursday i've given myself a daily leeway so they'll i'll put them in on thursday and then me and missus are going to go around well i'm not going to spend all the time in, in the place and then we're going to go around milwaukee and stuff and then i'll go back on sunday have a look at the event and then see where i did what i've learned from doing this, don't paint something you think is going to win paint something you want to paint, yeah if you try to second guess them and paint something you think has never been done before or they've never seen it you won't have the drive all these models i've painted i wanted to paint because i like the idea of them.

Mark: 36:38

And if the stars align yeah you need a bit of that you need a bit of luck on your side yeah without.

Little Mark: 36:43

A doubt yeah you need luck.

Mark: 36:44

You can't you can't predict it there's just hopefully with all of this effort, and uh yeah it's your moment this is the time.

Little Mark: 36:53

It's like i said it's i'm i'm leaning fully on i remember the artwork i like that that's what i'm look that's what i'm leaning on.

Mark: 37:00

Okay so when you're there because we're going to do a third podcast on this which will be the event and after, i wonder whether you can take some photos of it in the cabinet you know some photos anything you think really photograph it a few little videos if you can and we can include that audio that you record on those videos within the podcast and we can place the videos up separately as well as, a resource on our discord channel if you're happy to do that and then as much as you can do i mean vlog it and it'd be fantastic to sit to see it and to to detail it that way and obviously, you've got your partner with you and she can she can make a video you accept in the yeah.

Little Mark: 37:41

I mean i think the first video or photo you should take is me getting successfully through customs i think that'll be the.

Mark: 37:45

First do that yeah do that whole thing i'll piece it all together as a really good podcast episode and i think it'd be a real strong one this has been fantastic conversation so yeah we'll all wish you good luck mate you're off soon oh yeah mention we've got a painting competition as you know the rpg blokes we'll paint in our own alter ego figures, and which you're going to be judging and our own deadline for this as barry reminded to me last night is coming up. The month and these guys i just wanted to say, You know, Stephen is already a very good painter, right? He knows what he's doing. He's downplayed it, but this guy has been painted solidly through his life. So bear that in mind. Barry and John are going around Joe's and they're getting expert tuition. Not Joe's, Paint Monkeys. They're going around Paint Monkeys. Paint Monkeys spent five hours with each of them working on technique, working it through. I just, apparently Paint Monkey hasn't touched the figures, or so they say. I wouldn't necessarily trust that. It's your call. You're the judge. but just let you know i'm coming from a very very pure perspective on this and, when you judge that just better am i know i haven't painted for 30 years i'm picking up a figure out the box i'm sitting down with my paints and i'm literally doing my best effort then and there in the spirit of the competition how it was intended just to let okay that's what i wanted to, say you know i don't want to label the point but i'll just close off the podcast by saying thanks a lot mark for the conversation the chat and good luck with the event, and we'll speak to you again soon. Cheers.